Can't wait to try the Eagles MoFi Vinyl/CD test you described. At the end of the piece, you mentioned SACD. I have an SACD player and you might have one as well. Many high-end Sony Blu-Ray players will also play SACDs.
Super-Audio Compact Disks (SACD) were made only by Sony. They were meant to replace CDs and they were indeed way better sounding. They used a technology called Direct Stream Digital (DSD), which is a 1-bit system with an ultra-high sample rate of 2.8224 MHz, 64 times higher than a CD's rate of 44.1kHz. It's difficult to measure how this system differs from regular PCM digital audio used by CDs, but most engineers are of the opinion that DSD is equivalent in quality to PCM digital using a 24-bit, 88.2k sample rate.
I know that's a bit wonkish, as Paul Krugman would say, but let's put it this way: SACDs sound a fuck of a lot better than CDs. And I'd love to run a comparison of DSD to vinyl.
Best,
John Boylan
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As president of ABC Records, Herb Belkin knew the product he manufactured was junk. At the height of the vinyl crisis, they were ripping out latches and pressing records on melted down plastic raincoats. When he heard his young kids in the back seat of the car arguing about which friend had the better servants, he knew it was time to leave town and he ended up in cozy Sebastapol, CA running Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab. From the moment they unleased the Original Master pressing of the Supertramp album, discerning ears everywhere took notice. Their “Abbey Road” was an audiophile landmark. You have not lived until you’ve heard their pressing of Queen’s “A Night at the Opera.” At one visit to their office, I noticed a turntable rolling over and over the same album. Turns out they were testing the pressing by playing it continuously for ten days. Herb passed years ago and the label has been rescued from bankruptcy by people who believe in the MoFi tradition. But there is a reason record collectors pay hundreds if not thousands of dollars for original pressings of the Original Masters series.
Joel Selvin
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You nailed it in the PS Bob. The vinyl - when mastered all analogue - always wins for the reasons you stated. The SACD is great - much better than the cd - but the vinyl still wins.
Merck Mercuriadis
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I was in need of a laugh this afternoon, and you certainly provided it with your line about, 'you have to be an electrician these days to listen to music', too true! In between internet speeds for streaming, hardwired gear in the house and the outdoor system, my system in the office, it drives me round the bend! I'd decided to streamline our systems, guess what? After much hair pulling and forelock tugging, I caved and called a specialist, ends up he's an electrician who tells me all he does now is home systems, no more power points for this bloke, it's just figuring out the wiring, he was as cool as they come and had the whole place rockin' in three hours, bravo you major electrical legend!
Chris Grierson
Melbourne Australia
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All new vinyls released these days are produced from digital copies of the masters. You are listening to digital ALL THE TIME unless you listen to a disk produced in 70s. What you are hearing is the mastering differences.
Riza Pacalioglu
Ex Abbey Road Engineer
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I’d just like to point out that nowadays vinyl masters, cd masters, and streaming masters are all made independently. There is no one master anymore. The mastering engineer who does the vinyl is often a different person from the engineer who does the digital. That said, before even adding your equipment into the equation you’ve already got 3 objectively different masters, each with their own flavor. The purpose of this is to get the most out of each medium.
And yes, good speakers are good, but even the best speakers in the world will sound different in every different room you put them in. If you really care about this kind of thing it’s a good idea to treat your room and/or run something like Sonarworks to get an accurate picture. You can do this to headphones too.
My best,
Egan Frantz
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Hahaha that was funny! The better the system the bigger the CD/vinyl difference. The SACD makes it smaller but the vinyl still has a relaxation thing and digital is “noisier” (to the brain and that’s what produces the listening fatigue. You can listen to vinyl for hours with no fatigue
Michael Fremer
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Vinyl from 2010-now is a scam. A beautiful sounding (at times) scam but a $ play by artists. The jump the shark moment for me was when I was in the check out line at Whole Food and instead of chocolate bars tempting me it was a $35 vinyl of Bryan Adams “Reckless”. This was the day after my girlfriend went to Fleet Foxes at the Palladium and brought home a quad disc Vinyl of their latest album which cost her $55 at the show. Want to be annoyed? Try having Sex while having to get up every 2 songs to flip the record. If the Stones can sound 10x better and still have 6 songs on a side then they could as well. Don’t give me the 180 gram crap. Yes it potentially sounds better but a WAV file still sounds better as it sounds EXACTLY how it sounded to the artist when they left mastering. That’s what I want and I don’t want to pay 15k for a needle which is the price quoted to me at Ahead Stereo on Beverly when I walked in and asked them how much a needle would cost to make Ok Computer translate exactly as it sounded to the band in mastering.
Michael Patterson
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Oh yes Bob I have an OPPO BD-83 - plays anything thrown at it dvd-a sacd Blu ray audio PAL/NTSC - they don’t make them anymore but you can find used ones on ebay, the best part of this machine is the d/a converters and the fact that you can turn off the display to decrease noise, I’d recommend one, although the transport is a bit dicey, they figured out that problem with the later models
Marc Federman
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Bob you're gonna get a lot of vinyl geeks like me loving this review. I agree vinyl is a bit of a pain but when I have the right vinyl, on the right turntable playing through the right speakers and amp, it is bliss. My gear is mostly mid-fi compared to yours and my favourite combo is my Dual turntable with my Sansui amp, there is something about that idler wheel sound. You have a very nice turntable must sound amazing?
I listen to a lot of my music though my computer but when I want to have some fun I fire up one of my three turntables.
Doug Gillis
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I have been playing vinyl on a hi-fi system for over 40 years; as soon as I could afford quality equipment. You are right it all depends what your playing it on! The market is flooded with cheap record players, which you can plug into your system…….There is also the big question of the vinyl boom; was the original recording an analog recording (AAA)? There is so much vinyl out there that is digital recorded, which defeats the purpose!
My brother (Tim Hinkley, Van Morrison, The Who, The Rolling Stones, Alvin Lee, Jody Grind etc) and I have formed a record company, Reel Analog Records. Our intention is to release vinyl from the original analog tapes, cutting to the master with no digital interference.
Perhaps you would like a copy of our first release, “The Scrubbers Vol I”. An album recorded in Steve Marriott’s home studio? There is some controversy regarding this recording as the tapes went missing and a track ended up on a Humble Pie album…….. I have attached the press release for your info.
Kind regards,
Chris Hinkley
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Thanks for another great article Bob. If you own a Sony BluRay player there is a pretty good chance it will play SACD. I didn’t know this until I discovered it by accident recently when for some reason I played my dual layer copy of Stones’ High Tide and Green Grass.
Even Brande
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I do have an sacd player and the sound is far superior to cd and vinyl. The sacd reproduction is much closer to actual instruments. I suspect that an sacd reproduces a much broader range of overtones. I'm surprised that with your upscale rig you don't already have an sacd player with HDMI.
Edwar Bogan
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I’m not sure vinyl is a fetish but it is a bit addicting. When I was a young man I absolutely loved going to record stores and flipping the bins. I was into “alternative” music mostly and I discovered a lot of cool bands just from looking at the covers- they didn’t play most of this stuff on the radio. I grew up in Seattle and my friends and I discovered the early “grunge” bands this way before that genre existed. I bought the very first Nirvana album, Bleach, on black vinyl for less than $20, I remember seeing the limited white vinyl version for $40 but thought that was way too much money, I just wanted the music. I think the last record I bought a few years later was Nirvana Nevermind. Around that time vinyl was disappearing and I happily stocked up on hundreds of CDs instead.
Then about six years ago, my daughter started getting into vinyl. She was a teenager at the time and her friends were buying records and cassette tapes again! When she told me this, I found a couple milk cartons of my old vinyl records in the basement and hauled them out to show her my collection. The memories came rushing back and I suddenly realized I really missed my old vinyl records! There is something about holding that piece of artwork in your hand, and reading the liner notes while you listen. So I went out and bought another record player and found a vintage stereo system, and started collecting again.
Collecting vinyl nowadays is more expensive, especially for the limited edition, colored vinyl, 180g weight version. But I think the collectibility is also a huge part of the appeal, especially when you realize that the record you got for $49 sold out quickly and is going for $120 online. It is definitely addictive that way. By the way, my original Nirvana Bleach album has sold on Discogs for as much as $400 but the white version usually sells for twice as much (lesson learned, always buy the limited colored vinyl!). And my first press Nevermind has sold for as much as $2,000. I am a music lover, but I now buy limited re-released versions of records that I already own, just because they are so cool. So I guess it’s not just about the music.
Ian Wilson, vinyl addict
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I got both of the new Eagles albums on MOFI One step vinyl - today! Haven’t listened yet but I will on my cabin system tomorrow. I have most of these special editions, including Donald Fagan The Nightfly, Marvin Gaye, SRV, and Simon and Gar. They are all incredible and I highly suggest you find any you can and buy them! They are the best music you will likely ever hear and what is that worth??
Steve Miller
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Still have my SACD, another Sony format failure, but I love jazz on SACD - Charlie Byrd Trio is one my personal faves.
Good write up, Bob… I am always a sucker for geeky audiofile shit.
Chadd Barksdale
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Get an SACD player. You’ll be amazed at the difference
Cheers
Kieran Stafford
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Awesome! It’s always a pain configuring sound equipment but the payoff is those joyful moments immersed with sound. I still have SACD on one of my high end DVD players.
Blake Einhorn
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Use a quality DAC for the digital and it will surpass vinyl. You are comparing a CD player to a turntable that is twice the price. Plus, get real speakers. Computer speakers of any type don't cut it. Look at companies like Schiit Audio and Spatial Audio Labs for great gear that won't bankrupt you. Eagles in hi-res played on a good system is outstanding. Silent background, no snap, crackle, pop.
John Seymour
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Because you asked.
One of my DVD players (a Sony) plays SACDs. I have around 25 discs. They sound good. What kicked it off for me was the excellent SACD reissues of ABKCO’s Rolling Stones albums.
Harold Bronson
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Yes, vinyl requires effort. I will always contend that digital is the fast food of music; analog is the home-cooked meal. There is a place for both, but at the end of the day, which would you rather consume? It is why people will spend four hours preparing a meal that is eaten in twenty minutes.
That digital fatigue is music being pieced together from ones and zeros. Trust you ears. They know the difference, even if you can't actually hear it.
Dave Recamp
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I find it surprising that nowhere in your lengthy post do you mention the importance of using a top quality cartridge when playing vinyl. You are right that good speakers are important but the cartridge is what defines the sound. Sound quality is determined there. I’m surprised you don’t know this.
C Hoff
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I do have SACD player and CDs. It’s a great format and Sony Blu-ray players typically can play the CDs. Stones and Dylan catalogs were not enough to convince the masses to jump in. There are still new releases periodically. Check out Intervention Records. The Flying Burrito Brothers first two and The Church Starfish. Great adds to the SACD collection
Dan
Dan Timmons
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Nothing like vinyl and the proper gear. In my home office, I have a Technics 1200 turntable into a Marantz 2250B receiver straight into JBL-100s speakers. Both the Marantz and the speakers are restored.
The sound is so rich, so 3-D, tons of bass with no sub woofer, highs like cymbals are super crisp, etc. It FEELS like you are in the room with the musicians playing. Friends bring their vinyl test pressings over to listen on my session as the sound is so pure.
Total cost, roughly $3K. Best money I ever spent. Well, the extra money I spent on my Fosgate audio upgrade in my Subaru is a close second…
David Weitzman
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Hi Bob, I do have sacd. For me the biggest difference between the two is multi channel. Some people don't even like it. It's all in the mix. For example Dark Side of the Moon is done splendidly. Jeff Beck Blow by Blow, not so much. There are guitar solos coming from the rear speakers. I like my sound stage to be in front. It's a matter of taste.
For sound quality I don't think you'd hear much difference. SACD has been around about 20 years. It never caught on. These are just my opinions. Enjoy the vinyl. Its great. Russ Wilson
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I'm stunned. You don't have an SACD player? To my ear, they sound the best. You get all the clarity of digital, but with the warmth and punch of analog. Seriously, with your HiFi set up, you NEED an SACD player. To preview, find Hotel California on Apple Music and make sure you're all set up to playback 192/24 and that's what an SACD disc will sound like (mostly, an actual disc might be even better).
Love your writing!
Jeff Shattuck
PS - Get an SACD player.
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I’m happy this tech stuff makes you happy. And I’m impressed at your knowledge of it all.
My best moments listening to music happened on cars and on beaches and bedrooms with a.m. radios or low budget record players. But I get it. I’ve played on and produced records and spent thousands of hours in recording studios. It’s delightful when you can hear it all as intended. But back in the day, the big studios would have a low-reach radio transmitter that you could hook up your mixes to, so you could go out to the parking lot and sit in your car and hear what it sounded like in real life.
C’est la vie…..
Wally Wilson
Nashville
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Yes! An old OPPO BDP. Still working, ’tis wonderful for the SACDs I have.
Brandy Gale
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I enjoyed your comments regarding the Mofi 1-Step Eagles release. While I haven’t heard this particular release, I own a few others (Monk, Mingus) and their sonic quality is mind blowing.
But you’re totally right in saying that the whole premium vinyl movement is a fetish. While I stand alongside you in the minuscule percentage of listeners who listen critically on a home rig (VPI table, Sumiko moving coil pickup, McIntosh phono preamp and integrated amp, Dynaudio speakers), I’m not blind to the fact that the whole thing is a bit crazy - especially in this age of digital streaming convenience.
From a sheer production standpoint, premium vinyl is profoundly antiquated and nearly impossible. To achieve the sonic greatness that vinyl is capable of, there are so many spots in the chain for things to go awry. It really embodies the “weakest link” analogy in every sense. Starting with a well-engineered recording and mastering to getting a well-cut lacquer and then the metalwork (plating, stampers, etc) to the vinyl compound, manual pressing, cooling, sleeving, storage and transport. It is a minor miracle to open a jacket and remove a record with zero issues. There are only a few plants that are capable of consistently achieving excellence - with many more startups who’ve chased the vinyl goldrush without the experience and equipment to deliver quality wax. And don’t get me started on colored vinyl.
But I find the physical activity of listening to vinyl at home tremendously satisfying. During Covid, my record collection provided me the musical connection I was missing from the live experience. The immersive sound of a well-tuned stereo reproducing a beautifully recorded performance transported my mind to concert halls, small clubs and recording studios without leaving my listening chair. It’s not the same, of course, but it’s damn great in its own way.
Regarding formats, I think they all have their place. Vinyl is for critical “active” listening. Well-mastered CD/SACDs on a quality player (which I have) provide a near-identical sonic experience and can be had far cheaper and without the production variables inherent in vinyl - but not nearly as fun. Digital & streaming for discovery, portability and unreleased live recordings.
In an age when there’s never been more competition for our entertainment bandwidth, vinyl is an inconvenient and strangely satisfying investment. Part of what makes it so great is that it’s not so easy to get.
Thanks again and maybe see you back at Middlebury Snow Bowl someday!
Billy Glassner
Big Happy Dinosaur
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There is a lot to unpack here Bob but the test you tried to perform between vinyl and CD has way too many variables to really shine a light on the debate. That being said, from a strictly frequency standpoint, vinyl will never be able to compete in the bass department with CDs. That’s why the remastered versions of all the old greats, like the Beatles and the stones, gives the opportunity to remix the low end (kick and bass). On vinyl you generally have to low cut mixes anywhere from 60-100 to get a clean translation to vinyl. The records would literally be destroyed by the lathe if you tried to cut the low end levels we’ve come to expect in music today. Did someone say sub bass? Now there are tools that can be used to increase the upper harmonics of the bass so that they can be experienced through vinyl or smaller speakers that can’t reproduce low sounds. Also as far as loudness, and it’s personal preference if it’s a good thing or bad thing, vinyl will never be able to approach the loudness levels and limiting we’ve come to expecting today’s music. It’s not just a loudness level either, it’s the sound and vibe of digital brick wall limiting. As far CD quality vs HighRes (anything above 16bit / 44.1 for the sake or argument), the highres files will definitely sound better but again, there are so many variables and you need a system that is sensitive enough to really represent and display the differences between say 96 and 192. Whats your DA converter? What’s your preamp? Is your room treated and tuned? Are you using further software to flatten the frequency response? What is the frequency response of your record player vs your CD player? Cables? Speakers? Etc. And your 750 dollar CD player might not be a great quality benchmark
Also any record that you listen to today has almost certainly gone through multiple conversions between analog and digital, whether that’s through the recording process, the mixing process, or the mastering process. There are obviously records where that might not be true but I would imagine a lot of this “reissued, remastered” vinyl isn’t being made directly off the “master tapes”. As for CDs sounding this way or that way, it’s all in the recording, mixing and mastering. Anything can sound like anything. It’s just vibrations and electricity and zeros and ones.
Anyway. Just some thoughts to bounce around.
-jonny wexler
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You don't seem like a shed guy.
Tom Quinn
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Bob: is this a Larry David/Curb Your Enthusiasm episode pitch?
Burt Berman
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I would have hung myself with my bathrobe belt before going thru all that.
Steve Lukather
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I have superior equipment but I can’t operate it. Do you do house calls?
Bill Siddons
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